This summer, I decided to write about Vivek Ramaswamy because I thought his public speaking skills set him apart from his GOP presidential rivals. While most candidates struggled to find their footing, Ramaswamy knew exactly what he was proposing: a message that sounded essentially libertarian, coupled with opinions consistent with the more extreme corners of the right. The Ramaswamy team agreed to participate in the profile.

Ramaswamy let me observe him for three days at the end of July. I visited his campaign headquarters in Ohio and got a behind-the-scenes look at many of his media appearances. He took me home and introduced me to his family. I flew with him on a private jet and rode his campaign bus in Iowa.

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Over the three days, Ramaswamy and I had regular conversations, sometimes in short periods, other times in longer sessions. Last night at an interview with CNN’s Kaitlan Collinshe used the expression free flow to describe our interactions. Our discussions were often difficult, but they were always respectful. With Ramaswamy’s permission and in accordance with normal journalistic practice, I recorded all of our interviews.

During our last interview on his campaign bus, I touched on one of his most explosive claims: the suggestion that we don’t know “the truth” about January 6th. I asked him : What is the truth about January 6 that you are referring to? His response followed a curious path, bringing up, among other topics, the investigation into the 9/11 terrorist attacks. At one point he said this to me: “I think it’s fair to say: How many police, how many federal agents were on board the planes that hit the Twin Towers? For example, I think we want – maybe the answer is zero, probably zero as far as I know, right? »

Yesterday after Atlantic published my history and his comments on 9/11 and January 6 drew attention, Ramaswamy said Semafor that the quote we posted was not “exactly what I said”. Last night, when asked by CNN’s Collins about the same quote, Ramaswamy replied, “I’m telling you the quote is wrong, actually. »

The quote is correct.

Here is the unedited audio and a transcript of our exchange on 9/11 and January 6.

John Hendrickson: When you talk about all things We can handle the truth about Xyou know, and you list a bunch of things, one of which you said last night is: We can handle the truth about January 6. What is the truth about January 6 that you are referring to?

Vivek Ramaswamy: I don’t know, but we can handle it. Either way, we can handle it. Government agents. How many government agents were on the ground? RIGHT?

Hendrickson: You mean like a trap?

Ramaswamy: Yeah. Absolutely. Why can’t the government be transparent about something we use? Terrorists, or the kind of tactics used to fight terrorists. If we find that there were hundreds of us in the ranks the day they were there, that they were… I mean, listen…

Hendrickson: Well, there’s a difference between entrapment and a difference between a law enforcement officer identifying…

Ramaswamy: I think it’s fair to say, How many police, how many federal agents were on board the planes that hit the Twin Towers? For example, I think we want – maybe the answer is zero, probably zero as far as I know, right? I have no reason to think it was anything other than zero. But if we do a full assessment of what happened on 9/11, and we have a 9/11 commission, that absolutely should be an answer that the public knows the answer to.

Well, if we’re having a commission on January 6, absolutely, those are issues we should get to the bottom of. And there can’t be silence, separation, it shouldn’t be out of commission, hours of footage leaked to a media personality. No, it’s transparent. The doors were open. Here are the people who opened the doors, to whom? These are the people who were armed. These are the people who were unarmed. What percentage of those with guns were federal law enforcement officers? I think it was probably high, actually. RIGHT? There is very little evidence that people were arrested for being armed that day. Most of the people that were armed, I guess the feds that were there were armed. And so, I don’t know the answers. We deserve to know the answers, don’t we?

We made a commission on January 6th. There are some questions you can ask. We ran a 9/11 commission and if there are any federal agents on the plane, we deserve to know. And if we’re having a commission on January 6 and there are federal agents on the ground, we deserve to know. Just tell us the truth. Tell us what happened.

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And it’s not just that, is it? I think it’s also reflection, reflection on the truth about people’s underlying motivations. What were the sources of frustration? RIGHT? Is it really fair that Donald Trump pissed them off in eight weeks? Or are they people who have been lied to and repressed for a longer period of time? I think it’s clearly the last solution, right? And I think the failure to recognize the whole truth – we want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That’s really where I say we deserve – and I don’t think we’ve managed to answer any of those questions. On Jeffrey Epstein’s client list, on unidentified flying objects, on January 6, on the vaccine – on the COVID-19 vaccine – on the origin of the pandemic, which we now know, by the way, through the systematic efforts of people who had no idea what the origin was to bring down the origin. And I remember that, at the time, there were people like the big Harvard/MIT space, at the Broad Institute and elsewhere, who kind of talked about, Well, there’s a good chance it will happen, but we should be careful when talking about it. Or This could undermine the erosion of trust in science. There is no noble lie. It’s my point of view. The noble lie is non-existent. No lie is noble.

Hendrickson: I think it is interesting to compare September 11 and January 6.

Ramaswamy: Oh yeah. I don’t think they belong in the same conversation. I only mention it because it was… I’m not making a comparison. I think that’s a ridiculous comparison…

Hendrickson: I don’t compare…

Ramaswamy: But I say that I mentioned it only because it was invoked as the basis for the commission of January 6.

Hendrickson: Of course. What I’m saying, though, is that I think Democrats and Republicans would agree that 9/11 is a day akin to Pearl Harbor, where there are good guys and bad guys. and where America was attacked. I mean, I think it’s very clear…

Ramaswamy: I mean, I would take the truth about 9/11. I mean, I’m not questioning what we – it’s not something I’m betting anything on. But I want the truth about 9/11.